Burden of Proof
Burden of Proof is a True Crime Podcast run by two paralegals, who happen to be generations apart! Elysia (Gen X) and Savannah (Gen Z) met at their law firm, and discovered a lifelong bond and mutual love for true crime. Come with them as they tell each other a new case each week, and use their paralegal experience to breakdown the legalities of what happens when the criminals get caught!
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Episodes
Thursday Jul 20, 2023
Thursday Jul 20, 2023
When we left Captain John Orr in Part 1, he was just about to become the ATF's number one suspect in the Pillow Pyro arson cases. Hold on because the story is far from over! Elysia spills all the tea about John's dream of being a published author, the last series of fires, and how his, not one, not two, but three trials went! Meanwhile Savannah discusses a couple more brief legal lessons and confesses her love for ambiance.
Join the conversation! Find us on Instagram and Facebook!
Sources:
Burned: Pyromania, Murder, and a Daughter's Nightmare by Frank C. Girardot, Jr. and Lori Orr Kovach
https://www.aetv.com/real-crime/john-orr-arsonist-father-firefighter-murderer-family-lori-orr-kovach
https://murderpedia.org/male.O/o/orr-john-leonard.htm
https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/F3/29/636/480471/
https://www.oxygen.com/a-lie-to-die-for/crime-time/john-leonard-orr-serial-arsonist-unpublished-book-arrest/california
Music By:
https://www.fesliyanstudios.com/royalty-free-music/download/shady-business/2181
Thursday Jul 13, 2023
Thursday Jul 13, 2023
What comes to mind at the mention of fires in the L.A. area in the early 1990's? Eclipsed in the national news by things like police brutality, riots and the infamous OJ Simpson trial, The Pillow Pyro and the prolific string of arsons he committed is probably not the first thing that comes to mind. Tune in to find out how investigators began to suspect John Orr, an otherwise esteemed air force veteran and fire captain. Elysia walks us through John's early life, who he was as a family man, and the hunt for The Pillow Pyro as Savannah picks John out of a line up and discusses her love of certain mustached men.
Join the conversation! Find us on Instagram and Facebook!
Sources:
Burned: Pyromania, Murder, and a Daughter's Nightmare by Frank C. Girardot, Jr. and Lori Orr Kovach
https://www.aetv.com/real-crime/john-orr-arsonist-father-firefighter-murderer-family-lori-orr-kovach
https://murderpedia.org/male.O/o/orr-john-leonard.htm
https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/F3/29/636/480471/
https://www.oxygen.com/a-lie-to-die-for/crime-time/john-leonard-orr-serial-arsonist-unpublished-book-arrest/california
Music By:
https://www.fesliyanstudios.com/royalty-free-music/download/shady-business/2181
Thursday Jul 06, 2023
Thursday Jul 06, 2023
****WARNING: This case includes extra sensitive material including child victims****
We pick up part 2 of Lori's story with as much humor as possible because things take a very disturbing turn. So, we hope you like potatoes as much as we do! Savannah dives deeper into the conspiracy, Lori's rapidly declining behavior, more murders, how the police began investigating, and Lori's trial. Meanwhile, Elysia points out the obvious red flags in Chad Daybell's claims and presents a theory on one of his and Lori's delusional beliefs.
Join the conversation! Find us on Instagram and Facebook!
Sources:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/lori-vallow-chad-daybell-what-did-they-do-doomsday-mom-murders-case-timeline/
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/crime/lori-vallow-case-summary-timeline-b2341368.html
https://www.newsweek.com/accused-killers-chad-lori-daybell-had-cult-like-belief-system-documents-reveal-1637138
https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR22211624/032123%20Proposed%20Jury%20Instructions.pdf
https://lawandcrime.com/crime/there-was-a-lot-of-inappropriate-sexual-touching-between-alex-cox-and-his-sister-lori-vallow-daybell-dead-mans-ex-wife-claims/
The Doomsday Mother: Lori Vallow, Chad Daybell, and the End of an American Family - John Glatt, 2022
When the Moon Turns to BloodLeah Sottile, 2022
Music By:
https://www.fesliyanstudios.com/royalty-free-music/download/shady-business/2181
Thursday Jun 29, 2023
Thursday Jun 29, 2023
********WARNING: This case includes extra sensitive material including domestic violence and child victims********
How does a previously devoted mother begin to believe her children are dark spirited and the only way to save everyone is if they die? A good start is twisting her religion into a doomsday cult like conspiracy theology. Tune in as Savannah breaks down the case of Lori Vallow Daybell and opens up about her fear of the LDS church. Dig deeper with Elysia as she asks the real hard hitting questions about Lori's prophetic angel.
Join the conversation! Find us on Instagram and Facebook!
Sources:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/lori-vallow-chad-daybell-what-did-they-do-doomsday-mom-murders-case-timeline/
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/crime/lori-vallow-case-summary-timeline-b2341368.html
https://www.newsweek.com/accused-killers-chad-lori-daybell-had-cult-like-belief-system-documents-reveal-1637138
https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR22211624/032123%20Proposed%20Jury%20Instructions.pdf
https://lawandcrime.com/crime/there-was-a-lot-of-inappropriate-sexual-touching-between-alex-cox-and-his-sister-lori-vallow-daybell-dead-mans-ex-wife-claims/
The Doomsday Mother: Lori Vallow, Chad Daybell, and the End of an American Family - John Glatt, 2022
When the Moon Turns to BloodLeah Sottile, 2022
Music By:
https://www.fesliyanstudios.com/royalty-free-music/download/shady-business/2181
Thursday Jun 22, 2023
Thursday Jun 22, 2023
When Billy and Debbie Triplett are found murdered in their Clay County home, detectives know the killer is most likely someone the couple knew. Not only because things like double homicide just didn't happen in the small town, but also the gruesome nature of what otherwise appeared to be a robbery. However, every lead went seemingly nowhere until Billy's son, Randy Triplett, entrusts some laundered cash to a friend. Literally, the cash had been washed. Laugh along as Elysia dives into the ridiculous details of Randy's actions after the murders and Savannah gives us all a legal lesson on why you aren't allowed to forge your dead father's signature to sell his car!
Join the conversation! Find us on Instagram and Facebook!
Sources:
https://www.oxygen.com/floribama-murders/crime-news/randy-triplett-robbed-slaughtered-his-father-stepmom
https://www.al.com/news/birmingham/2016/04/convicted_double_killer_found.html
https://www.gadsdentimes.com/story/news/2003/06/30/son-receives-life-sentence-for-slaying-his-father/32340423007/
https://codes.findlaw.com/al/title-13a-criminal-code/al-code-sect-13a-9-3-1.html
https://www.findlaw.com/state/alabama-law/alabama-capital-punishment-laws.html
Music By:
https://www.fesliyanstudios.com/royalty-free-music/download/shady-business/2181
Thursday Jun 15, 2023
Thursday Jun 15, 2023
Elizabeth seemingly grew up on the fast track for success. Wealthy, well connected parents, opportunities to learn all over the world, and a big enough college fund to attend Stanford University. Elizabeth was a dreamer though. Unfortunately, her dream would end very differently than so many rich kids who run Fortune 500 companies. Tune in as Savannah tells how this college drop out would go on to scam hundreds of millions of dollars away from investors and Elysia debates on the why.
Join the conversation! Find us on Instagram and Facebook!
Sources:
https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndca/us-v-elizabeth-holmes-et-al
https://www.businessinsider.com/theranos-founder-ceo-elizabeth-holmes-life-story-bio-2018-4?amp
https://www.forbes.com/profile/elizabeth-holmes/?sh=761f573847a7
https://www.britannica.com/biography/Elizabeth-Holmes
https://www.forbes.com/sites/petercohan/2019/02/17/4-startling-insights-into-elizabeth-holmes-from-psychiatrist-whos-known-here-since-childhood/?sh=3aaf6018366b
https://www.biospace.com/article/as-a-child-elizabeth-holmes-was-guarded-and-private-school-friend-tells-abc/
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/03/17/elizabeth-holmes-owes-over-25-million-to-theranos-lawsuit-says.html
https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/07/tech/theranos-rise-and-fall/index.html
Who-is-billy-evans-elizabeth-holmes-husband
Music By:
https://www.fesliyanstudios.com/royalty-free-music/download/shady-business/2181
Thursday Jun 08, 2023
Thursday Jun 08, 2023
Join us in a little Pride history lesson as we cover the lives and deaths of two great men that played an integral part in the LGBTQ+ community! As Mayor of San Francisco and ally to the community, George Moscone used his position and privilege to open doors for many who had always been oppressed and under represented. As San Francisco city supervisor, Harvey Milk was the first openly gay man to hold an elected position in the U.S. When George had an opportunity to turn the board of city supervisors in their parties favor, former fellow city supervisor, Dan White, claimed to see it as a personal betrayal. Was Dan really just the depressed and desperate man his defense team claimed him to be? Or was Dan quick to react with violence out of a lack of regard to the lives of those different than him? Tune in and decide for yourself as Elysia and Savannah give it their all! The facts, the eww's, the awe's, at least one dad joke, and some tears!
Join the conversation! Find us on Instagram and Facebook!
Sources:
Murder at City Hall: The killing of Mayor George Moscone and Supervisor Harvey Milk
https://www.sfgate.com/health/article/Myth-of-the-Twinkie-defense-The-verdict-in-2511152.php
https://advance.lexis.com/documentpage?pdmfid=1000516&pddocfullpath=%2Fshared%2Fdocument%2Fcases%2Furn%3AcontentItem%3A3S11-SJR0-003C-R37H-00008-00&pdcontentcomponentid=506037&config=00JAA0NDgwMGE5Mi01ODYxLTRkZDEtODQ0OS1mYmEyN2M3ZmZmZWQKAFBvZENhdGFsb2fyUIbYd2jFgdWUbISiHcjK&ecomp=8sm_k&earg=sr1&prid=00cf44dc-548e-49f8-8e4a-e90060e66e41&crid=2b99cafc-c901-458f-8d3b-711848efdef7
https://milkfoundation.org/about/harvey-milk-biography
https://cultureofoneworld.org/breaking-news/human-rights/legacy-of-the-late-sf-mayor-george-moscone-haunts-ghost-light/1337/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Moscone
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_White
https://www.history.com/news/what-were-the-white-night-riots
Music By:
https://www.fesliyanstudios.com/royalty-free-music/download/shady-business/2181
Thursday Jun 01, 2023
Thursday Jun 01, 2023
Pack a bag and some snacks as Savannah takes us on a trip across three states! The Love Has Won cult, also known as "Mother God cult," was a controversial spiritual group founded by Amy Carlson, who referred to herself as "Mother God" or "Mother Earth." The cult gained attention for its unconventional beliefs and practices, which were often described as a mix of New Age spirituality, conspiracy theories, and pseudoscience. Gasp and "OMG" along with Elysia as we find out how this "loving" group's story ends in death and the arrests of several members.
Join the conversation! Find us on Instagram and Facebook!
Sources:
https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/love-has-won-amy-carlson-mother-god-1254916/amp/
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/love-has-won-cult-amy-carlson-b1969246.html
https://open.spotify.com/episode/0r74HYf0TxmPR0r4bj1Bko?si=4OK2H1NNQhSgknObN3TWeA
Music By:
https://www.fesliyanstudios.com/royalty-free-music/download/shady-business/2181
Thursday May 25, 2023
Thursday May 25, 2023
Many were shocked when officer Bobby Lee Cutts, Jr. told the FBI that he knew where, his former girlfriend, Jessie Davis, was nine days after she went missing. Others were in disbelief when he claimed her death was accidental. Follow along as Elysia tells Bobby's tale of an amazingly strong elbow thrust that took the life of Jessie and her unborn child. Join in with Savannah's bewilderment as we dissect exactly how a trained police officer fails to follow the law after such an "accident".
Join the conversation! Find us on Instagram and Facebook!
Sources:
https://law.justia.com/cases/ohio/fifth-district-court-of-appeals/2009/2009-ohio-3563.html
https://casetext.com/case/cutts-v-smith-1
https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/2007/06/27/suspect-s-life-full-broken/23356961007/
https://www.cleveland.com/metro/2008/02/cutts_trial_resumes_with_testi.html
https://www.cleveland19.com/story/6716896/cutts-wife-files-for-divorce/
https://latestinbollywood.com/taylor-giavasis-parents/
https://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/02/27/cutts.sentence/index.html
https://www.cantonrep.com/story/news/local/canton/2017/06/13/bobby-cutts-jr-i-was/20606717007/
Music By:
https://www.fesliyanstudios.com/royalty-free-music/download/shady-business/2181
Thursday May 18, 2023
Thursday May 18, 2023
Susan Walters thought she found her perfect match with her husband, Mike. Unfortunately, it didn't take Mike long to show his true colors. After 17 long years, Susan was ready for her ever after without Mike. Never did she imagine the lengths Mike would go to in an effort to stop her from getting it. Join Savannah and Elysia as they cheer on Susan in this rare bad ass survivor tale!
Join the conversation! Find us on Instagram and Facebook!
Sources:
https://casecompanion.multco.us/
Susan Walters Comes Face-to-Face with Her Hitman
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wV_ByXpRbk
https://blurredbylines.com/articles/susan-kuhnhausen-walters-survivor-hitman-portland/
https://www.badassoftheweek.com/kuhnhausen
https://www.wweek.com/news/2016/08/17/a-hit-man-came-to-kill-susan-kuhnhausen-she-survived-he-didnt/
https://allthatsinteresting.com/susan-kuhnhausen
https://apnews.com/article/5b174483777f307a5728f6eb666917d5
Music By:
https://www.fesliyanstudios.com/royalty-free-music/download/shady-business/2181